TPF Podcast #565- The calm before the F1 storm

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Join Grace and me as we discuss circuit character, Martini, Williams, engine parity, testing, and more. We read your TPF Mailbag questions and hand out awards too.

Fashion award winner:

Soundcloud Player:

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sunny stivalaRapiermansubcritical71Negative Camber Recent comment authors

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Member

RE: Grand Prix Driver on Amazon Prime Canada – It absolutely is available. I watched it using my Canadian account.

And yeah, total bummer that the F1TV package is not available here yet, but there are ways around that if you want it bad enough…

Member
Fast Freddy

Finally a fashion award to someone who looks normal. Stay warm, the sun is out today.

Fabio
Member
Fabio

RE: engine mapping for customer teams. I was listening to another F1 podcast (I’m sorry man, I never said we were exclusive) last year, and they had Matthew Carter on (ex Lotus F1 boss). He was talking about when he was running Lotus and they were at a GP (I forget which one now) but they were in a position were it would have been advantages for Mercedes, if Grosjean were to speed up a bit, so they got a recommendation to try a specific engine mapping setting during the race and low and behold, the Lotus was now an… Read more »

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

As everything else in life there are good quality much educated and informed podcasts and the more extremely popular and more populated podcasts. The later standings are mostly aided in no small way by ex-drop-outs or dropped-outs joining the likes of mister/s know it all/been there/done that/seen it all/all others are razzmatazz JOE’S. they go on air or in-print and start telling what their favorite nicker color used to be, some even go as far as to state what it used to smell like. That stuff gathers for the vast majority because unfortunately the vast majority likes to hear/see/ or… Read more »

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

Off topic but Latest interesting news as regards Vijay Mallya google “Maltatoday 7march, 2018, 8:57am”. are you reading JAKO?.

Member

Sounds like Vijay’s in a whole heap of trouble!
If he can’t even keep up the pay to the staff on his super yacht.
I didn’t know he was being accused of money laundering.
Hopefully his problems won’t take the team down with him, and some super clean oligarch or billionaire can step in to save the day.

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

By yesterday evening it was reported that the compliment on board were somehow paid one half of what they were owned which amounts to just over one million Euros, but the payment wasn’t by VJ himself, in fact it is stated that he has “Abandoned the thing he owns”. The princess is majestically moored at the same place I last was involved with her equally impressive big V20 diesels when more water then bunkering fuel was pumped into her holds and her diesels started complaining.

Member

I hope you got paid for your work.
Since Vijay can’t leave the UK, maybe he will sell his yacht, pay the crew, and split the rest between lawyers and Force India.

Member

With Grosjean, a bit of driver coaching to get him out of braking so late would probably be more effective in getting his pace up than an extra engine mode.

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

I can totally see the rat with a black robe giving the order! “imgur.com/ vozsbtd” 3rd from top click to enlarge.

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

“PU parity of supply hogwash” The manufacturers phenomenal combustion efficiency achievements in collaboration with their respective oil/fuel suppliers was only possible to be used for any length of running time by the development of highly critical measuring sensors and self-regulatory capability software. The combustion produces such high and critical “on the limit” pressure and heat that highly critical and sophisticated “in cylinder” knock, pressure and heat sensors had to be developed. These in-cylinder sensors sniffs the critical point at which the all destructive knock/detonation is due to happen “in-cylinder critical limits of pressure and heat”. Just one knock in any… Read more »

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

Further to “PU parity of supply hogwash” some more notes that might interest some on the phenomenal combustion achievements of the present PU and the enormous efforts and costs entailed in every further performance improvement. The electric power and time per lap assist to the ICE crankshaft is a fixed maximum of power and time per lap by the rules. Those that still cannot make full use of these fixed maximums is because of their ICE still unresolved reliability problems. For those that have no such problems their combustion process is an ongoing development program. Here is just a sniff… Read more »

Member

It makes sense that every component of these p.u’s would have to be optimised to the nth degree to extract the next kw of power when they’re already so powerful and efficient. It makes it really tough for anyone who’s not Mercedes.
I just want to test my understanding of the last bit of your post, are the turbos run independent of the I.c.e, and are fed by gasses generated to match the exhaust from an I.c.e, and that is circulated in a closed loop system?

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

Yes, the very expensive test rig and process generates exhaust gasses in a closed loop system that allows the turbo to be run/developed with exact and proper hot exhaust gasses. that’s what proper simulation is all about.

Member

So if a fuel / oil suppliers sponsorship isn’t covering at least that dyno tuning cost, and delivering better than manufacturer team power and drivability, the team should ditch them, and run what the manufacturer does.

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

As I said, the manufacturer cannot but supply his customer with the same PU, OIL, FUEL and CONTROL SOFTWARE. Some customers will have their own oil/fuel supplier-sponsor. There might be some customers and oil/fuel sponsors that will be content to just stick a plastic sticker on the car and let water settle there. But some sponsors might want their products to be actually used, in which case the manufacturer will have to dyno tune the PU to the limits of that product. Considering the great effort and expense involved in developing these type of combustions I don’t see a chance… Read more »

Member

What you say sounds reasonable, Sunny, but it has the brutal implication that at most 4 fuel and oil companies will be involved in F1.
Another sponsorship avenue closing for the smaller teams.

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

Unfortunately you are spot on

subcritical71
Member
subcritical71

Red Bull already go against this trend by using their own fuel / oil supplier (different from Renault specification). It is probably more work to do this but less so than manufacturing the engine as well. It is definitely possible to be successful at it. Sometimes you need a third set of eyes to push the boundaries a bit more than say the manufacturer would. I wonder if Red Bull flow their findings back through Renault for possible modifications to the PU? I’m guessing they would like to keep any found advantage though. I’m surprised more teams do not do… Read more »

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

“PU Customer teams/Red Bull doing their own dyno work???”. This F1 PU supply to customers is not like you going out and buy an off the shelve brand new engine of your chose and taking it back home and kiss it up with a sledge hammer if you so wish. In F1 you pay for the engine, you use that engine/race that engine but the engine is not yours/you don’t own it. Read again what I said re equality of supply how and why plus what’s technically possible. AND also read (just out this minute) “Wolff:-red bull missing out with… Read more »

subcritical71
Member
subcritical71

I think you misread my post as the article you reference supports what I typed. Red Bull are using different fuel supply than Renault. Red Bulls’ Christian Horner also provided a rebuttal this morning refuting Wolfs’ claim. Also as I alluded to yesterday, Horner confirms “Obviously there are additional burdens involved in that as it’s a different supplier than what the works team have, it just means they’ve got to run more engines on the dynos which we have to cover the cost for.” Red Bull reject Toto Wolff claim over Renault fuel difference – Red Bull and suppliers Renault… Read more »

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

I did not misread you post/what you said/wrote. you should have stated what article I referenced that supports what you typed. as to Horner, he can rebut all he likes, technically speaking he is out of order, politically speaking he is as usual the number one fomenting discontent in F1 as they at red bull has been since the start of the new engine formula after at the very start of the new formula the fell flat on their face and had to lick back all they had spit out.

subcritical71
Member
subcritical71

Those articles were not yet out when I opined originally. I read the information last year when the change was happening from Total to Exxon. I was surprised then that Renault would allow a customer to Dyno their engine with another fuel supplier, whether Renault did the actual testing or not.

My surprise today is why is Toto only now making a big deal of this 1 year later?

sunny stivala
Guest
sunny stivala

“toto” because of the fomenting discontent started by the red bullies. as i said, no manufacturer will allow his engine to be dyno tested by others and not even Repaired or adjusted in any way.

Matt Guss
Member
Matt Guss

When talking about F1 pubs, I was very puzzled about why you obviously left off F1 RACING. I subscribe and think its a terrific magazine about the sport, the tech and the drivers. Plus the photos are excellent. I read about F1 online but I prefer to have a monthly magazine and this one is excellent. Maybe I haven’t been listening long enough to TPF to know if you have dismissed F1 RACING.

Member

Jeez Todd …….so you are impressed by the new Indy bodywork, and think it might lead to closer racing, then you wish someone could find a way to eliminate the need for DRS, and the next question is about considering closed bodywork, and you don’t make a connection? Maybe you were tired.
Perhaps its time to develop an open mind on closed bodywork? As Grace says, if it leads to closer racing why not? It’s not as if you can actually watch sportscars 21 weekends a year.
BTW, You’re doing great with the name, perfect ;-)

Member

Re: the halo, I don’t think it’s necessarily attractive, but I really think the response is too strong. Granted, I have not watched a race with it yet, but from pre-season testing photos, it does not look nearly as bad as I feared. Overall, with the shark fins gone, I think the cars are a net gain aesthetically in 2018 versus 2017. At the end of the day, the halo is meant to enhance the safety for the drivers. If that device presents a serious injury or death – or even the reasonable chance it could – far trumps any… Read more »

Rapierman
Member
Rapierman
  1. No, we can’t secede: (1) Unconstitutional, and (2) we don’t have nukes.

  2. Ask Daytona how it felt about “character”.

  3. ….and Todd says I’m verbose.

  4. It’s Formula 1, not World Rally Championships.

  5. ….and then there’s folks like me who watch NASCAR.

  6. I could die in my sleep, in my bed, and all I did was sleep. My life could end at any time. I can’t live being afraid of dying that much. I’m not a fan of dying, but that’s life.

  7. Then it must grind your teeth if I go full Texas Drawl and say “Th’ Park Firmy”. :D